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vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57016
Thu Dec 08 2005 11:59 AM
Thu Dec 08 2005 11:59 AM
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st louis, mo
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stlouismikey Offline OP
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how do these compare? i'm getting ready to do a pump in polly, and i have been looking at the decals. i have never used the water release decals. are they nicer or easier to use than the vinyl ones? has anyone had good experiences or bad? anyone have any pointers? i would hate to screw up a set of water release decals at 25.00 bucks a piece....but i'm not realy looking to lose 20.00 on a pair of vinyl ones i could screw up either...lol.
let me know if you have time guys,
thanks,
mikey

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Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57017
Thu Dec 08 2005 12:37 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 12:37 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,785
Lodi, CA.
Signal Gas & Oil Offline
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Lodi, CA.
I have used both. Vinyl are easier in my opinion to use. Water release some are easy and the real thin ones are tough. Older water release and maybe newer ones also should be clear coated over after application especially if being used outdoors. Drawback on vinyl is they stick out a bit but are easier. I use both and it depends if you can find them both ways for the company you are using. When I did my Polly some 8 years ago I used a water release without a clear coat and have had it indoors and it looks like day one. There are several vendors on here which are oldgas members and I am sure they could help when application is discussed. My 2 cents. Ted

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Ted Pam & Ethyl Roach
Lodi CA.
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
pca-west.org
vintage-logos

[This message has been edited by troach (edited 12-08-2005).]


Ted Pam Ethyl & Polly Roach
Lodi CA.
209-210-8971
Looking for Signal, Hancock, Mohawk, Douglas, Gilmore and Richfield
Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57018
Thu Dec 08 2005 12:51 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 12:51 PM
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st louis, mo
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stlouismikey Offline OP
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thanks for the fast reply ted. do yo uever use soapy water with the vinyl decals? i have used soapy water and squeegy when i apply a vinyl on a car or bike and it works pretty well. you can possition it better and then use the squeegy to get the water out from underneath it. then when it dry's its on there for good. and i guess i was wondering about the water release...are they just like a REALY big version of the old plastic model decals? you soak em in water till the come loose, and stick em on where you want em? or are they a thicker material?
again, any help and input is appreciated guys
thanks,
mikey

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57019
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:04 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,240
Decatur, IL
thermactor Offline
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Granted I've only done them on models, but I prefer the water transfer. I don't like the excessive thickness of vinyl. You can see the "edge" on top of the paint. I'd prefer to have a thin water transfer decal under the clear coat for more depth.

I'm sure it's harder to do than vinyl when it's a big decal (bigger than my old models), but I figure it would be worth the effort...

Wes

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57020
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:18 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:18 PM
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Posts: 538
BEULAH CO
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besgar Offline
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I prefer water realese, but I clear,cut,and buff all of mine annyway. I use dbc500 clear over the base, then hit it with 600, place the water transfer, let it set over night so it is good and dry. Then I start with really light coats of DBC500 startig with the edges and working in ward towards the center a little mor every coat untill totally coverd. I then put to pretty heavy coats over the whole pannel. I then let it dry over night again. I then sand the whole pannel with 1000, Then clerar with 3 good coats of youre favorite clear, Then cut and buff. This makes for a really deep looking paint job,and you cant feel the sticker. To me the water transfers look more like han painted. As far as aplication it is extremely important to fallow directions. If youre decal was like most the ones I have used they dont come with instructions. I have a coppy of them i could email or fax you if you go this way. Most people that have problems with these do not fallow the instructions. They are definetly harder to use but are worth all the extra steps, and time, to me anyway. Hope this helps. If you have any questions email or post on here, and if I cant awnser them Mike Slama can he has used these and produce these for a long time, thats where I got the directions, and now where I buy them. He suplies most the other vendors.
Brandon

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57021
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:35 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:35 PM
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Posts: 4,160
Seattle WA
djhubba Offline
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Seattle WA
I recently did something differet with a pump I have. I used T-ways decals but went to my local sign shop and bought a big piece of magnetic backing and mounted the decal to it and "rebranded" an older pump I had. It worked great and with the "magnetic signs" if I ever decide to sell the pump I can keep the "signs" and globe to use on another pump if I would like. With the extra thickness the magnets add..they look more like signs than decals. This may be another option for you Mikey. I like the way mine look.

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Hubba: GAS GEEK , OIL FREAK and humble moderator

[This message has been edited by djhubba (edited 12-08-2005).]


Hubba: GAS GEEK , OIL FREAK of Seattle WA
Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57022
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:36 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 01:36 PM
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Posts: 60
new lenox,il.
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dean balduff Offline
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new lenox,il.
I wouldn't even consider using those *&%$@#! water release decals.I have been using T-Way's products on the last few projects and I have been very satisfied. Dean

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57023
Thu Dec 08 2005 03:44 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 03:44 PM
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Guthrie, OK. 73044
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Seth Robbins Offline
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Water Release Vs. Vinyl...it's an age-old question. Until recently, using a water-release was a 50/50 proposition. Only the most seasoned veterans had consistent success with them. Sometimes, they would even split in the water before you could use them. NOW, a new manufacturer has come to the forefront that uses a different process altogether (much simpler) and they are also made from a heavier material. Also, the decals are "face down" on the wax paper, so all the positioning and squeegee work is done with the wax paper still on so they are about 100X easier to deal with. Right now, about 50% of the logos available are done in this new process, with the remainder due to be done in the next year.

To me though, it's just always simpler to use vinyl. Our vinyls are pretty thin and are simple to use. When I am decaling anything with vinyl, I always drench the sticky-side of the decal with Windex and also the area where it will be applied. That way, you can play with it until you are sure you like the positioning. Then I just squeegee it out with my driver's license or with a putty spreader.

Dean....give one of the new process water-transfers a try. All you do now, is just dunk the decal in hot water for about 10-20 seconds. Then you lay it out (still face down on the wax paper, glue-side up) for about 1-2 minutes, so the glue can coagulate. Then you wet the surface of the pump door and position the decal. Then you squeegee it and slide the wax paper off. It is so much easier. The new decals are more rubbery and not so much like onion-skin. Call me personally, and I'll let you try the first free. (This only applies to Dean!!)

Seth Robbins http://www.vicsplace.com/store.php?section=1&cat***87


[This message has been edited by Seth Robbins (edited 12-08-2005).]

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57024
Thu Dec 08 2005 04:07 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 04:07 PM
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Posts: 294
st louis, mo
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stlouismikey Offline OP
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hey guys,
thanks for the info. keep it coming...and dean, i looked at T-WAYS stuff, and i found one i realy like. the polly shield...that one is GREAT, i have to get a hold of jim and see if he makes em a little bigger. i have looked all over and need the input. this will be the first one i have done with vinyl/water release, all of my others have had pump plates, and i usually try to use original one's. this is gonna be a feat. i'm looking all over, i'm not sure who has the best color, what size i should go with, which one i should use (vinyl or water release) i've never had this much trouble....LOL i looked at gas pump heaven's and time passages and t-ways and all...now i'm starting to get confused. do they all come from the same place?...is one better than the other as far as quality? someone even mentioned mike slama supplying all/most of the vendors. i'm trying to find a good deal on em just in case i screw em up...LOL i also have ALOT..and i mean ALOT of other parts i need, so i'm trying to get my list together and maybe just pay for shipping once.
thanks for all the feedback guys...any other good or bad experience's?
thanks again,
mikey


[This message has been edited by stlouismikey (edited 12-08-2005).]

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57025
Thu Dec 08 2005 04:14 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 04:14 PM
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Guthrie, OK. 73044
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Seth Robbins Offline
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FYI...I just started doing a Pollygas die-cut in 20". It is nice for tall electrics and visibles.
http://www.vicsplace.com/store.php?section=1&cat***115&***3354

(it is pictured on the paper, it is DIECUT)

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57026
Thu Dec 08 2005 04:53 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 04:53 PM
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Walla Walla, WA USA
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gatorgaspumps Offline
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I've used both and as long as you use lots of soapy water on the vinal decal, I've never had a problem. I like the look of the water release decals better but I'm with Seth, the old type you took your chances with them splitting. The new style are great and I would recommend them but they are reversed and you cann't match up paint with them anymore. Richard

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57027
Thu Dec 08 2005 06:05 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 06:05 PM
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Posts: 2,752
Edgewater, Colorful Colorado
st.rod Offline
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In memory of DB 9/12/49 - 8/28/14
Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57028
Thu Dec 08 2005 06:14 PM
Thu Dec 08 2005 06:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 442
Central , MN USA
SuperAmerica Man Offline
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Central , MN USA
gatorgaspumps
You bring up a good point about matching color to the water transfers, I can see that being a problem.

Seth
Can you elaborate on how these new style transfers work when clear coating?

I've always preferred a smooth finish over the decal, even if its more laborious.

Kim

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Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57029
Fri Dec 09 2005 09:20 AM
Fri Dec 09 2005 09:20 AM
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Posts: 294
st louis, mo
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stlouismikey Offline OP
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ok, seth and you other old gassers almost had me talked out of the water release decals. but seth said the new ones are alot better....and i keep hearing the same thing. the vinyl are nice BUT.....the water relase LOOK better...so now i'm back to the water release. does anyone make a small set of water release in the new style? i have seen some small ones for oil bottles, but are they the same as the big ones? as far as the new material seth talked about. if so i would be more apt to spend 3 or 4 bucks, and get one of each and play with em on a painted panel and see which looks better. i think thats my final solution...so when i decide which to use...i will only have to decide on HOW BIG NOW!!!! i have a wayne 100 and a wayne 70 that has been cut down. neither has ad glass..SOOOOO....what size do i go with?
mikey


[This message has been edited by stlouismikey (edited 12-09-2005).]

Re: vinyl decals -vs- water release decals #57030
Mon Dec 12 2005 05:54 AM
Mon Dec 12 2005 05:54 AM
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Posts: 3,361
Riley, MI, USA
T-way Offline
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Riley, MI, USA
Mikey:

As the fellows have mentioned - it all comes down to personal preference.

However, the vinyl decals I sell are all available at any size required. My process 'prints' one at a time so you can get any size you need for your project. All the way from a larger-than-normal pump decals to oil bottle decals to match. Or Lubester decals if you want!

The mass-produced offset printed decals sold by the major restoration houses are printed by the hundreds to keep costs down. So you only have the size(s) available that's listed in the catalog or on the web site.

In addition, I can mount your decal to magnetic material for that 'original' porcelain sign look (as Hubba mentioned).

On the down side, you can't clear over my vinyl decals (at least I don't recommend it, since I haven't tried it yet). If you want to give it a try, I can send you one of my images without the clear laminate on the top surface and you can give it a try.

Later . . .

Jim



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