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#687443 - Thu May 25 2017 06:01 PM Visine Gets the Red Out!
Steven C. Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jun 01 2012
Loc: MICHIGAN
So I recently had a conversation/debate with a fellow Oldgasser. Names will remain anonymous to protect the innocent. And his embarrassment when I"m proven correct. Well, hopefully anyway.
So did Pennzoil actually make signs without red bells? Maybe in between the older brown bell era and the later red bell era?
Or, as I had suggested, was the red was just gone due to sun damage?
I would love to see solid proof of this. A missing link type sign for example, that is half red and half clear, showing proof of fading.
Anyway, looking for solid proof if it's out there. A PORCELAIN sign (most Pennzoil signs are painted/printed) with a clear bell would also suffice.
Anyone have a clear sign with a date?


Attachments
00r0r_i01F6dThtxO_1200x900.jpg




Edited by Steven C. (Thu May 25 2017 06:02 PM)
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#687446 - Thu May 25 2017 06:26 PM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
ironheadtom Offline
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Oct 12 2011
Loc: San Bernardino , Cal. USA
I had one that looked just like that. Painted. The red on mine was obviously faded.



Edited by ironheadtom (Thu May 25 2017 06:27 PM)

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#687452 - Thu May 25 2017 07:45 PM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: ironheadtom]
JimT Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Dec 06 2002
Loc: Cleveland,Ohio U.S.A.
That sign you posted is enamel ,not porcelain ,Steve. I'm pretty sure its just faded.

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#687453 - Thu May 25 2017 08:37 PM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
Mike M. Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Jan 31 2012
Loc: Western, WI.
I've never seen one without the colored bell but I have seen them faded like that but still part of the color on the bell 🔔
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#687468 - Fri May 26 2017 06:48 AM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
tbuckles Online   content
Petro Enthusiast

Registered: Wed Sep 10 2003
Loc: Carthage, IN USA
It seems that the reds fades worse than other colors. Never seen that sign without the red.
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#688422 - Mon Jun 12 2017 03:12 AM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
Steven C. Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jun 01 2012
Loc: MICHIGAN
So my friends and I are still constructively debating/researching this. And they have found several examples without any red. And they all seem to be dated in the late 40's.
I was starting to think maybe there was a period during or just after the war that some signage was made without the red. Then this morning I found this on ebay. 1948 Pennzoil vertical which always has red shadowing on all the letters. Here is a great example of one that maybe was under an overhang, so the top of the sign didn't get as much sun and some of the red is retained. But amazingly the red is completely gone from the rest of the lettering. As if it was never there!!


Attachments
penn.jpg

penn2.jpg




Edited by Steven C. (Mon Jun 12 2017 08:46 AM)
_________________________
Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump add glass!!

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#688496 - Mon Jun 12 2017 09:46 PM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
carolinaskies Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Tue Feb 08 2011
Loc: Upstate SC, USA
Red pigment takes in more high energy particles from UV rays and breaks down quicker. That's the scientific explanation. This is especially a problem with organic pigments which were the prevalent available until the mid 1950s. Even then man-made pigments are still susceptible if not protected by clear coats that have UV rejection compounds.

BTW, early Pennzoil had green bells. I had a great sign a couple of years ago that dated to around 1919-1920 with the green bell.
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#688534 - Tue Jun 13 2017 05:46 PM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
gulfiend! Offline
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jul 01 2005
Loc: Raleigh, North Carolina
...Steve, on the sign you posted above, the red has faded...it was there at one time...
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#688546 - Tue Jun 13 2017 07:36 PM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: gulfiend!]
Steven C. Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jun 01 2012
Loc: MICHIGAN
Originally Posted By gulfiend!
...Steve, on the sign you posted above, the red has faded...it was there at one time...


I realize. That is exactly my point. This sign is proof of just how severe the fading can be.
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Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump add glass!!

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#689050 - Fri Jun 23 2017 12:56 AM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
chevy350 Offline
Active Member

Registered: Fri Oct 21 2016
Loc: central coast California
I was wondering this myself. My sign has no dating on it and there is NO sign of red in the bell on either side. If I remember correctly the yellow in the bell is slightly a richer yellow but barely noticeable. Boy were the walls empty then...


Attachments
IMG_20170312_120004189.jpg




Edited by chevy350 (Fri Jun 23 2017 12:57 AM)
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#696877 - Tue Oct 17 2017 03:36 AM Re: Visine Gets the Red Out! [Re: Steven C.]
Steven C. Online   content
Veteran Member

Registered: Fri Jun 01 2012
Loc: MICHIGAN
Here is a great example of a sign that was once red with only a hint remaining. The red has simply faded away.
I don't believe there ever were signs made with clear bells. And any such sign is simply a faded sign.


Attachments
surb sign faded bell (2).jpg

surb sign faded bell (3).jpg


_________________________
Steve Coppens
Always interested in Sunoco items!
Really want a Sunoco National pump add glass!!

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