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Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? #690896
Thu Jul 20 2017 09:32 PM
Thu Jul 20 2017 09:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,043
Western, WI.
Mike M. Offline OP
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Mike M.  Offline OP
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Western, WI.
So I got my book for the Rich Penn Auction and I notice a number of "Contemporary" (new word for repop? LOL) signs scattered through out the auction. This seems a bit odd that an auction running along side a big gas show is selling signs that we all dislike and do nothing but hurt our hobby!

Anybody else have any thoughts about this?


Thanks
Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.
Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690904
Fri Jul 21 2017 03:02 AM
Fri Jul 21 2017 03:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,926
Pickett, WI USA
Old Racer Offline
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Old Racer  Offline
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Pickett, WI USA
Mike I agree. That is why I have pretty much stop buying signs.
"Contemporary" signs have ben around for years, but it was pretty much always easy to tell when you are touching them. the fakes have gotten MUCH better.
A customer of mine just bout an ORIGINAL pump sign on Ebay. He gave it to me to put on his pump and it was a fake. Luckily he was able to return it through Ebay and PayPal and get his money back. You can't do that through an on line auction.
I think I will stick with pumps.



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Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690906
Fri Jul 21 2017 04:35 AM
Fri Jul 21 2017 04:35 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,268
Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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KZ1000  Offline
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Mass
The sad part is the Auctioneer was asked about it and he defended the use of these tricky words to confuse the uneducated. Its all about the money.
There is only 1 reason NOT to call a fantasy a fantasy, or a repro a repro


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690913
Fri Jul 21 2017 07:34 AM
Fri Jul 21 2017 07:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,323
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline
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BryceG  Offline
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Peoria, IL
They are also selling a repo Mack Bulldog sign and describing it as a mint original. I have let Ron Hoyt know... hopefully they pull it.

here's how to tell if anyone wants to know... https://oldgas.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=519573

mack_fake.jpg
fake Mack Bulldog sign


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Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690918
Fri Jul 21 2017 09:38 AM
Fri Jul 21 2017 09:38 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,018
Missouri,USA
Rabbitman Offline
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Missouri,USA
I don't understand why they even want to go there at this particular venue. Iowa has always been where all the purists congregate and it's not like there is a shortage of real stuff to put in the auction. There have been more people selling collections and wanting to downsize through auctions in the last couple of years than we have seen maybe ever. Prices are at an all time high, so much so that I think this is the answer to my own question. A lot of attendees to these auctions just can't afford to buy anything original.But why pepper in junk just to make a few non-collectors feel important by buying a piece at the auction? Besides, you know there will be a few newbies that actually want to learn and collect real pieces that will get caught up in the frenzy and buy one of these "contemporary" pieces by mistake. It's just the nature of an auction. I buy very few signs because it is so hard to know what you're getting and when you do find a nice piece.....well, I'm just too cheap to pay the price anymore.....GB

Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690922
Fri Jul 21 2017 10:01 AM
Fri Jul 21 2017 10:01 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,239
Illinois
Cold Pizza Online content
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Cold Pizza  Online Content
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Illinois
To me,Iowa Gas & integrity used to go together.This is no longer the case,and I have stopped going to that show entirely or endorsing it anyway,because of this subject and other promoter actions.


Collecting Vintage Sunoco
Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690924
Fri Jul 21 2017 10:22 AM
Fri Jul 21 2017 10:22 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 327
Midland, Michigan
BrianH Offline
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BrianH  Offline
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Midland, Michigan
This sounds like just one more reason for me not to attend this show. It's bad enough that they can't keep a handle on the schedule of when the swap meet/room trading starts. Now they're letting this repop junk in as well. I was really happy with how the CTO show back in June was run and the quality of the stuff there was excellent (too excellent for my wallet). I'll stick to the CTO show.

BrianH

Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690938
Fri Jul 21 2017 03:05 PM
Fri Jul 21 2017 03:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,043
Western, WI.
Mike M. Offline OP
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Mike M.  Offline OP
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Western, WI.
I e-mailed Rich this Morning as follows along with his response.
Though as my e-mail states, there is a time and place for these signs to be in an auction. I do Not believe that time should be while a major gas/oil show is going on!!!

I LOVE THIS PART " They aren't a reproduction. They were special signs made for a special application. They weren't made to be resold. If it's made in the last 25 years....for whatever reason, we think "contemporary" is a good adjective.

My E-Mail:

Rich, having the chance to run the auction at the Iowa Gas show to me is a pretty cool thing. And I know you don 't like the idea of the auction being at night or on Friday where most of us believe it should be so we can enjoy the swap but having Reproduction signs and items (or as you describe them "Contemporary" )scattered throughout your auction is IMO a kick in the face of our Hobby.

These signs hurt our hobby every day and I understand there is a time and place where you can sell them at one of your auctions but during a show filled with collectors that hate this *****, it just plain sucks.

Thanks, Mike Matteson


His response:

Hi Mike,

Thanks for the note and your thoughts. I do appreciate input. I'll offer a couple of thoughts in response. I shared some of this recently as a post on FB.

First, we love selling people's collections. We love both the buyers and the sellers. Because we're collectors too. So... when we sell a collection, we sell the entire collection. We don't cherry pick. And there's a good reason for that, everyone's collection has some great stuff, some ordinary stuff and some "why did I buy that stuff?" Those are the mistakes.

We all have some, including me! Many of those collections have mint original pieces and pieces that are newer. Pieces that are marriages. And pieces that have been restored with replacement parts. I don't think we've ever sold a restored Juke Box, a car or a slot that didn't have something "aftermarket" on it. Some might calls those things reproduction, because they aren't all original. We wouldn't. It's fairly rare to find pieces that come to the market today that are 100% righteous.

Most collections have some of those righteous pieces. Most have some pieces that have been altered over the years or even restored. Most have pieces that are newer, or contemporary. But the collector that owned them liked them all. We sell them all. And we try to be clear about what we sell.

Where a purist collector hates to see the newer pieces, restaurants, decorators and those new collectors love them. The new younger collectors usually can't step up for that $5,000 sign. But they love the look and when their finances allow, they might step up. The market is big enough to make both groups They were made for a business. They aren't a reproduction. They were special signs made for a special application. They weren't made to be resold. If it's made in the last 25 years....for whatever reason, we think "contemporary" is a good adjective. I guess you're welcome to disagree.
happy.

We have some signs in this auction that are newer. And only one or two were made.
We do our very best to meet the needs of both buyers and sellers, the entry level collector and the advanced collector. In the long haul, the market and the hobby will grow when you're serving both segment. No one gains when sellers are dishonest. That's where "reproductions" hurt the hobby.

There ya got it. My two cents worth. Which might not be worth even that.




Thanks again for your thoughts.




Rich Penn

Last edited by Mike M.; Fri Jul 21 2017 03:10 PM.

Thanks
Mike

Always Looking for any Pure Oil and Sunoco Items.
Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690947
Fri Jul 21 2017 04:28 PM
Fri Jul 21 2017 04:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,268
Mass
KZ1000 Offline
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KZ1000  Offline
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Mass
Still no reasoning why they use tricky names instead of stating exactly what they are. Very dishonest


"Remember, history that is forgotten is doomed to repeat itself!"
Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690949
Fri Jul 21 2017 04:48 PM
Fri Jul 21 2017 04:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,520
MN United States
T
Tankar Offline
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MN United States
That's about the most Bull.S. I have heard from an auctioneer ever and I have been to 100s of auctions.

Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690953
Fri Jul 21 2017 05:46 PM
Fri Jul 21 2017 05:46 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 171
Belvidere,IL 61008
H
Hud Oil Offline
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Hud Oil  Offline
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H
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Posts: 171
Belvidere,IL 61008
unbelievable BS, just lost my respect for the man,

Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690959
Fri Jul 21 2017 06:49 PM
Fri Jul 21 2017 06:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,323
Peoria, IL
BryceG Offline
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BryceG  Offline
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Peoria, IL
ask him to explain the fake Mack sign then... if they dont describe that as such, someone will get burnt for thousands


Wanted: Sweney Oil items - Peoria, IL

Follow Me & my Finds on Instagram: @bryce_gillespie
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Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690968
Sat Jul 22 2017 04:59 AM
Sat Jul 22 2017 04:59 AM
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 327
Midland, Michigan
BrianH Offline
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BrianH  Offline
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Posts: 327
Midland, Michigan
This is not complicated:

Original - an original, unrestored or unaltered piece.

Restored/touched up - some original finish, with touch-ups or improvements/alterations to the image

Reproduction - a piece produced on a date later than the original production run and not by the original sign manufacturers.

This auctioneer is full of ***** and has zero integrity IMO.

BrianH

Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690975
Sat Jul 22 2017 07:50 AM
Sat Jul 22 2017 07:50 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,438
Michigan, Union Pier
Done4 Offline
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Done4  Offline
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Michigan, Union Pier
Morphy's had repros in their auction but to their credit they were called out as repros. On the other hand if they didn't they would have been busted. When will these guys realize that being up front is appreciated and being caught is somewhat disgraceful.

Last edited by Done4; Sat Jul 22 2017 08:36 AM. Reason: spelling

Have gas all the time
Re: Iowa Gas Auction Contemporary signs? [Re: Mike M.] #690976
Sat Jul 22 2017 08:16 AM
Sat Jul 22 2017 08:16 AM
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 610
Georgia
coheley5 Offline
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coheley5  Offline
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Georgia
That's why you should never buy anything unless you have looked at it in person , touched it or picked it up . There is a reason they love the online bidder or phone bidder they are not there .


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