Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums General Petroliana Discussion 'Restoration' vs 'Customization'

...I know much has been written here regarding the lack of 'Pump Police', and how it's a free country, and you can do whatever you want when you decide to 'restore' a pump, but can we have a little dialogue regarding the rather loosely-used term 'restoration'?...

...it seems to me that in the classic car hobby/business (some say the bastard father of our hobby) there is a real difference between 'restoration' and 'customization'...the former involves returning the car to an original state, as closely as humanly possible (what the Smithsonian Institution did when they got a Tucker Torpedo) - the latter involves taking substantial liberties with paint scheme, amount of chrome, even the form of the car (taking parts from different cars and creating a fantasy piece)..., y'know, like the stuff you see on 'Monster Garage', or 'Pimp My Ride'...

...I bring this up as I just saw the photo from Peotone of the pump with orange metal flake paint - as well as the photo in the last PCM with the cowhide-covered Frontier pump - and I see fantasy paint schemes on here all the time, referred to as 'restored' - when in fact they have been 'customized'...

...does anybody else out there have any input on this? Personal preferences aside, I think the hobby would benefit in the long run from a little clarification...

I think the problem with pumps is the fact that in most instances, you have no idea what it originally was and generally, it was a half dozen brands in it's life-time. So I guess, unless you were dead-nuts sure that it was say a Mobil Special pump, the only way to do a correct resto would be to identify the oil company you want to represent and do a color-scheme that would be correct for the era the pump would've been used. The other problem is, that so many liberties were taken by the station owners or jobbers i.e. re-painting, re-branding, etc. The bad thing is, most pumps in their correct form were fairly plain. I'd have a hard time telling a guy paying me $15,000 for a restored Canadian Double that I was going to paint it all red, cylinder rods, pump handle, screw-heads & all. No, he wants everything possible brass-plated, and about 3-4 colors in the scheme. It would be a heck of lot easier to go by original....maybe we should start a movement right here!!

Below are some definitions for the word restore.

re·store ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-stôr, -str)
tr.v. re·stored, re·stor·ing, re·stores
To bring back into existence or use; reestablish: restore law and order.
To bring back to an original condition: restore a building. See Synonyms at revive.
To put (someone) back in a former position: restore the emperor to the throne.
To make restitution of; give back: restore the stolen funds.

The restoration of a car, gas pump, etc. needs to be further defined. Restored to what? Original? Better than original? How about restored to the owners vision? One of my favorite words thrown around the car circles is restification. What ever it might be, you gotta have fun with it.

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-Dave-
Slowly progressing on a '54 Tokheim 39

Restoration & customization are 2 entirely different worlds & you just have to decide which world you want to live in. Both have their good points & bad points. I wouldn't want my '58 model truck that I drive every day, to not have AC & automatic but I still like to see one that's totally original sometime. If you restore an old gun, anything more than just oiling it, you probably just killed it's value no matter how rough it was before. I like mine pretty & shiney & I intend to have them pretty & shiney. Fortunately, with old gas pumps, it seems that the prettier & shinier they are, the more they're worth. Is this a great hobby or what?

ken

..."better than original"? That's customized.

...the only way a pump could be "restored to the owners vision" (using the definitions supplied) is if the owners' vision is of the pump as it originally appeared...otherwise, it's 'customized' to the owner's vision...

..."the only way to do a correct resto would be to identify the oil company you want to represent and do a color-scheme that would be correct for the era the pump would've been used"...EXACTLY - that's a restoration.

..."the prettier & shinier they are, the more they're worth"...I don't think that will be the case down the road...I believe unrestored or authentically restored pumps will hold and increase their value more than 'customized' pumps will...

I agree, gulfiend.

Actually, nothing bothers me more than seeing pumps restored to "fantasy" specs. That is, use of pump plates and decals that were never even used back in the day, like that round sinclair dino logo w/ the large dinosaur. I consider these types of "restorations" to be customization, and they're actually a turn-off to me.

I like seeing restored pumps that have either original or correct repro pump plates, decals, globes, etc.

Personally, I'd like to see more people uncover their original decals, like Jeff (Thunder) did and get repros made as exact as possible if it's something uncommon. If all of the original obscure-branded pumps get restored to Mobilgas Special or Fire-Chief with a fantasy globe, a lot of history will certainly be lost.

Wes

..."the prettier & shinier they are, the more they're worth"...I don't think that will be the case down the road...I believe unrestored or authentically restored pumps will hold and increase their value more than 'customized' pumps will"...

What do you base your opinion on?
To me the best pumps have original paint and decals, but I from what I've seen the "customized" pumps sell for more money. As time goes on I think the trend will be towards more "fantasy restorations". MOST pump guys are already more into the workmanship that goes into restoring a pump, and less concerned about authenticity. The only evidence you need to see that is the proliferation of reproduction and fantasy globes.

There is no right or wrong other than restoring a nice original that would be better off preserved, and not everyone is in agreement on that! Rebuild your pumps as you see fit.

Gulfriend and Thermactor are true blue. Old and original is the only way to go , why use an old pump to make it look new or fantasy(custom)??? You might as well use a new reproduction one from the ground up. Keep it real. There is plenty of beauty and interest in the original if you will just really look at it, and appreciate(relish) it for what it really is. Real history.......

Lastgas15: I only started this post in the hope of establishing distinct definitions for pump 'restoration' and 'customization', not to debate about what approach was "right or wrong"...but, since you asked - in the spirit of healthy debate, and freedom of speech - here goes...

...I do realize that an immense amount of labor goes into the 'customizations' you refer to - extra plating; fanciful, tricked-out color schemes; 'bling-bling', etc. The same can be said for the cars featured on the aforementioned TV show 'Pimp My Ride'- and I don't think anyone would confuse anything done that show with a 'restoration'...

...hmm, maybe this is more of a debate about 'restoration' vs. 'Pimp My Pump'....

...seriously, there IS a real difference between 'restoration' and 'customization'...and for some reason those in the 'customization' camp are fearful to have that distinction made...

...more importantly, what exactly are you "preserving" when you create a fanciful customization? If you're just trying to keep the pump from deteriorating further, then I suppose you are technically "preserving" it. However, a true 'restoration' preserves both the pump itself, as well the historical significance of the pump as an surviving artifact from a bygone era. A huge part of that is in it's appearance as designed by the artists/industrial designers of that time...if you're not interested in that, you might as well collect reproduction signs, reproduction globes, and reproduction pumps and paint them every color of the rainbow in pearlescent metal-flake - because you're not really 'restoring' or 'preserving' anything...

...and, since you brought up "the proliferation of reproduction and fantasy globes" - does anyone out there think fantasy globes are what the hobby of collecting gas station memorabilia is about? Does anyone out there get excited when a truckload of fantasy pieces/repros pulls up at a swap meet? eBay is loaded up with really bad fantasy restroom key holders and other fantasy signs - do they have anything to do with collecting gas station memorabilia? Why not start a column - "Fantasy Buys of the Week"?

...I think most will agree that reproduction parts (and some pump signs/decals/globes) have their place - but building a large collection of things that never appeared at a gas station, well, that's just another hobby...it might impress your brother-in-law, but no true gas station memorabilia collector I know walks into a room full of fakes and thinks anything but 'what a waste of time'...

...if you're still not convinced, ask yourself this: how could a fanciful distortion of history be more valuable than an accurate portrayal of history?

Y'all can do what you want...from here on out I'm going to call it as I see it: there are restorations and customizations...

a toss up..... some gotta have a "correct" pump... others gotta have a "harley" pump... do what you like.. theres a market out there for both..

IF SOMEONE WANTS TO PAY ME $15,000 FOR $10,000 PUMP, I'D GOLD PLATE IT FOR THEM !!
db

The restoration and customization definition gets blurry when the actual "restoration" work takes place. How is one supposed to work the outer skins of the pump? Do you work out the dents making the skins perfectly straight? Have you "over improved" the pump if you do? Do you think pumps left the manufacturer in a perfectly straight condition? Probably not. How do you paint the pump? If you use modern paint materials such as base coat/clear coat or single stage urethanes are you "customizing" the pump? If you polish the trim to a luster have you "over improved" the pump? Did all pumps have globes? If you add one are you "customizing" it?

I can understand original verses fantasy. Some people have strong feelings over this. Thats fine, to each his own. In the Automotive world, flawless paint, trim polished to a luster, all details perfect is what wins car shows. The thought is "if the factory had enough time to do it right, this is what it would look like".

With a pump, no one knows what the station owner did to the pump after receiving it. He did what ever it took to set his station apart from the others in order to make an extra buck. Maybe it was an added decal, or an added stripe.

The definitions are blurry at best. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. The owner should "restore" the pump to his/her own vision.

When you say your restoring to preserve the history of a pump, how far do you go. Do you restore to working order or do you rip the guts out of it and restore just what you can see or turn. A true restoration, would mean everything right down to the lead base paint and all the heavy stuff that most people take out.

I agree with the restore people, I try my hardest to keep the right era globe and pump plate with the same era pump, but I use base coat clear coat on all my pumps. Nothing bugs me more than seeing a 60's era globe on a 20's or 30's era pump, original or not it looks stupid.

So my question is this am I a restorer or a customizer. I use base\clear and I lighten up the pumps by taking out the pump and other stuff, but I use all the original stuff I can get, and use correct globes and pump plates. You guys got me confused, I hope the pump police don't stop by.

Brian

A P.O.S. is still a P.O.S. even if it is chromed!!

I have seen a visible with gold plated tie-rods. I pointed out to the owner that they were badly corroded and perhaps should have been replaced, he said, but they are Original!! Yeah.. after you buff off the gold they would be!!..LMAO..

I think there is too much thought involved in this subject...I restore(let me say that loosely) and will paint them any color the customer wants if they are paying for it. I think that people who criticize somebodys hard work on a restoration/customization are the same people who also nit pick cars at car shows that I attend. I praise anyone who takes time(alot at that) and restores one of these classics. Though they may not be what I would do it still takes alot of time. Also, if your in the business to make money originality sometimes takes a back seat to show and shine as Seth stated. Most who complain have no clue! I personally wouldn't touch a real nice original myself, but If the buyer says paint it I do it. What makes me mad are the guys who spray bomb over pits ect.. and charge full price now thats bad! Freedom of expression only in America!