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#7884 Tue May 25 2004 06:17 AM
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Well, maybe we're not quite desperate, but we need globe pictures. Please email globe pictures to me. We need them for this month's GOTM feature in Showcase and Stories, as well as the upcoming Globe Album.
you can email pictures to me at Lastgas15@aol.com just be sure to type in "globe pictures" for the subject. If you have alot of pictures you can snail mail a cd with the pics on it.

A few guys have expressed concern that someone might use pictures from this site to reproduce rare globes. Every picture on this web site is copyrighted. Every picture on this site is off limits to the repoppers so there's no need to worry about that. If someone were to repop a globe using images from this site I'll have Hubba tattoo "thief" on their forehead.

I know that several of the guys that post here on oldgas have globes or pictures of their globes that haven't posted them or submitted them for the globe album. Its time to step up and Help The Hobby! (Dwaine Buck came up with HTH. I think that should be the official motto of this site....Oldgas.com Helping The Hobby!)

Thanks in advance.
Bob
Lastgas15@aol.com

[This message has been edited by Lastgas15 (edited 05-25-2004).]


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


http://www.lastgas15.com/
Please use For Sale forums to sell

Please - NO offers to Buy or Sell in this forum category

Statements such as, "I'm thinking about selling this." are considered an offer to sell.
#7885 Tue May 25 2004 07:49 AM
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Bob, I don't have any globe images to send, or I certainly would. I certainly don't have anything rare enough to be afraid of it being copied, but, be realistic? Once that photo hits this site, it belongs to anyone that wants it.

That's already been proven here. If I own a rare one of a kind globe, and post the photo here, what's keeping anyone else from using that image to make a decal, a globe, salt/pepper labels, oil cans, or even a sign?

Chances are I haven't copywrited the image, and I'm sure that process isn't an easy one anyway. How do I prove that someplace down the line some oil company doesn't already own that image?

I do own one little decal that is original and a "killer piece". I don't share the image with anyone, but have shown the original to a few people. Why? because I don't want it mass produced.

I happen to have benifited from people taking images and making globes and decals, so I certainly can't put anyone down, I just think we all should be realistic. If you don't want it used elsewhere, don't post it.

------------------
Don "oltoydoc" Sherwood
Vintage Gas


Don "oltoydoc" Sherwood
oltoydoc@vintagegas.com
(310)415-9562 Cel.
Vintage Gas
#7886 Tue May 25 2004 09:12 AM
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I know what you mean Don. We spend thousands upon thousands yearly on our catalog & websites and it never ceases to amaze me how much piracy of images goes on. We freely swap intellectual propery (i.e. pics) with one other parts vendor & there are a few guys that have been adult enough to seek permission to use SOME of our images, which generally means they are trying to sell something that they are eventually going to buy from me. But the majority of the time I see pictures I paid to have taken used freely without my permission. I spoke to attorney about this issue and he told me that when you take a digital picture, you can add small text within the image (generally in a bottom corner) that reads "This image is the intellectual property of the photographer, Don Sherwood (or whoever)". Then if that image is used elsewhere you have recourse. I wonder if in GOTM or POTM, etc. if we added a byline at the top of the thread saying the following photos are the property of the posting user, if it would discourage the practice Don is concerned with. Seth

#7887 Tue May 25 2004 09:12 AM
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Well Don, if a person owns a one of a kind globe that hasn't been pictured anywhere but here, and its gets repopped, then we know where the picture came from.

The people that post here don't need to copyright an image posted here. Everything on this site is copyrighted by Jim.

You brought up an interesting point about oil companies owning some images. I know for a fact that globes have been reproduced without permission from the owners of the trade mark.

Yes, I guess its possible that repro's could be made from images on this site. It's also illegal! Are the risks worth the rewards? I doubt it. Has anyone priced an attourney's services lately?


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


http://www.lastgas15.com/
#7888 Tue May 25 2004 12:25 PM
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I have to put my two cents in on a issue related to this... I too have spent thousands of dollars on artwork to make new face plates for gas pumps and air meters only to have other vendors buy a set of my faces and then use them to get their artwork and/or patterns. Ron Scobie


Ron Scobie
http://www.gaspump.com or
rscobie(TheAtSymbol)gaspump.com
Phone - Six five one-653-6503
#7889 Tue May 25 2004 02:29 PM
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Seth, Ron, and all parts, sign and globe makers,
I have an idea. Lets get every manufacturer and vendor on this site to agree publicly in this forum to not use another guys products for patterns without permission. Lets carry it a step farther and have all the globe, sign, and parts makers pledge to never use an image from this site for their artwork.
Let's call it the Oldgas Peace Accord.
Not to put anyone on the spot or anything.....but who's in?
Bob

[This message has been edited by Lastgas15 (edited 05-25-2004).]


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


http://www.lastgas15.com/
#7890 Tue May 25 2004 05:07 PM
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You've got my pledge, I've never grabbed an image off this site to reproduce anything. I use original stuff for patterns & colors.... that way you know you've got everything right. Like I said earlier, it's these guys that are setting complete websites using mine & other vendors pics & even part numbers!!! I feel like it is about on par with having something no one else has and then having somebody jack your image & make a bunch of copies. If everybody is informed & on board, that's different. To make a long story short....count me in on that agreement.
As far as being on the spot, it doesn't bother me. I just want to get along with EVERYBODY!! Life's too short.....have fun!

[This message has been edited by Seth Robbins (edited 05-25-2004).]

#7891 Tue May 25 2004 05:47 PM
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If you want to post and not have your image used than take the picture at an angle. That way it makes it difficult for someone to use it. That goes for anything you post... just take the picture on an angle.


Looking for anything from Hoosier Pete, Platolene 500 and Red Bird.
#7892 Tue May 25 2004 06:56 PM
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Seth,
My hat is off to you for stepping up first. I think we'll know in a day or two where everyone stands on this.
Bob


Wanted: Gas pump globes:Sinclair & affiliates, IL companies. Ripple bodies. Anything Sinclair, Stoll, Pierce, 4 Bros.


http://www.lastgas15.com/
#7893 Tue May 25 2004 07:00 PM
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We at Vintage-logos are in, most of the globe image's I've seen on this site we already have bigger and better images of, some are black an white, we have to watch for the colored image inorder to get an idea of the color that was used. The rare one of a kind that we have permission to reproduce we will not post. not that we don't trust any one. but if you've never seen it, then you won't miss it. thats what my dad used to say about sex. ha ha ha . you see the images thats posted on here is to small for t-way to use for good image art, but the color might be used. But its just like Seth taking that guys images off ebay. ha ha ha . thats mine , no its not, its mine,Kidding Seth. Theres some images that we would love to see made. and you no, we do not have enough time to do all thats out there. The globe books do not touch it all. You collectors that say you will never buy a repop globe, thats great. but 5 years 10 years from now if your still alive, you may ask yourself why didn't i buy that rare reproduction globe. just to look at it. All of T-ways art is registered. Thats our key.
Heres something we might do, I will send you Bob, the image after we have the image produced hows that?? or you could go on our site and look all you want. and Bob some of the pictures we have of globes you wouldn't no what the company was anyway. there not in any books. anyway we haven't seen them.
Did I make any sense??? One more thing , on our way back the Dixie bash we stopped and took picture of globes and decals with permission, but was asked not to show them but we can use them. Dale,Ivan,Chip,Seth, and others. thanks .

------------------
Dwaine
www.vintage-logos.com

[This message has been edited by Dwaine Buck (edited 05-25-2004).]

#7894 Tue May 25 2004 07:18 PM
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You can slow a thief down or make it rough for them, BUT it will never stop them.

I'm sure that Jim could disable the RIGHT CLICK, [ stop the sending of page with photo's, maybe even prevent the printing or save picture as ... ]. BUT they will find a way around this TOO.

Jarvis,
Even taking a photograph at an angle [showing the whole item], won't keep a graphic artist from tweaking the photo till it gets pleasing to the eye. It might not be perfect, but it will look like the REAL thing when they get done.

Just my 2 cents.
Dick

#7895 Thu May 27 2004 07:20 PM
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Well, this is an interesting topic, I have to admit I wasn't following the post, but it was brought to my intention this afternoon, so here's my two cents, actually it runs on a bit so its more like a $1.88.

For the record, not that anyone is pointing at me, but hey, I make globes so I have to say it. Every globe I've made was reproduced from an original that I have owned, or was given to me to copy, from artwork and or photos supplied by the person that commissioned me to produce it, or composed from other advertising published by the company marketing the orignal brand.

I have been approached on many occasions to produce globes using other peoples artwork, and I know the people asking probably didn't consider the implications of me copying another persons work, but I certainly have, and I outright refuse to do it. I'm a talented and resourceful guy that knows a lot of collectors, and when it comes time to do a certain globe, it will be my work. More importantly, especially to me, if someone else already makes a the same globe, they will be able to see the differences between theirs and mine at a glance, after spending weeks going over every detail of a design, you have an intimate knowledge of every aspect of your own work, and can easily see differences that a person who buys the globe will never see. And, if the other artists are like me, they build in key but subtle differences, and can tell if their work was used as the master by someone else.

Something I've learned over the last few years. about the books being published, is that the information they publish, is just current information, as we saw with the globe books. Now you would think that after making globes his business for 20+ years, that Scott B. would have every fact about every globe correct down to the smallest detail, but he doesn't, and he doesn't hide that fact, he published information that was up to date when the book went to press. So, every month he publishes updates which in turn contradict the facts published in his own books. New globes are discovered daily, and a globe that was a 6 when the book that was published becomes a 5, and then a case of lenses are found and it becomes a 3, all in the blink of an eye, and these are just the ones that we here about, trust me there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes. So, the published rarity of any item be it a globe, sign or pump, is not the be all, end all, actual fact, its just the facts as we know them to date. So, when an artist re-creates something that the published word says there is only one of, that doesn't mean they obtained the artwork by under handed means, it just means they travel in different circles, or, are privy to certain things because of the work they do. I'll tell you this much, if you think there is only one Sunset globe or less than 10 Jenny's in the world, you would be mistaken. I'm also amazed at how many people have owned something rare, at one time or another, and sold it because it became too valuable, but had the foresight to document it in hopes of seeing it reproduced some day. I just received a thick bundle of photos just the other day, dozens of very rare globes that this person had owned or dealt on over the last 20+ years, straight on shots front and back developed to largformat, and delivered right to my door without a lot of fan fair. Now, when I produce a globe from one of these photos, and the vast majority of people have only seen that globe in single book or in a single magazine articlee , they will speculate that's how I got the artwork, its all here say and the rumor mill will run full speed, but at least I know.

Sure, I could take and reproduce a globe from a book or a magazine, without a doubt, like Dick said, a good graphic artist can take a basic skewed image and shape it and recreate it, I know I could, because I'm that good, and I'm not alone. But, if the people that own the items are afraid to share images because of that, they won't share them any more, and everyone will lose, so I won't do it. In the last year, there was a globe in one of the magazines that I fell in love with, I mean WOW it knocked my socks off. It is listed in the globe books as a 6 but there is no photo, I know it's a 5 but I've never seen it pictured anywhere else. I could have easily copied it from the large photo and been producing it now, but I didn't, I called the guy that owned it and proposed a limited run, he wasn't crazy about the idea, so I'm not doing it. Will I do it, sure, if he changes his mind or I get artwork from another source, but I won't copy it from the magazine just because I can, when I do make it I'll know how it came to be.

Registered trademarks, a major issue. Some of you may recall my very first globe, the Red Indian causing a stir, what a way to start out. But I did my homework, and consulted a trademark attorney who assured me that the image I was using was not protected under a re-issued trademark registration held by a fellow in Ontario. The logo he owns is the stylized logo used after 1935, and isn't even close to the one on my globe, the two logo's were registered separately and concurrently in the thirties right up to the mid eighties, when they expired he picked up one but not the other, but he continues to slander my name over the supposed trademark infringement, he's tracked down my customers and scolded them for buying them, but its all fiction, be that as it may it, still has its effects. The same issue just came up over a globe I was just planning, I did the homework on the US trademark data base, logo's were in the clear etc. but as it turns out, one word was still infringing, so I could change the word and be in the clear, or just move on to the next globe, did you know there are almost 6000 globes, way too many to choose from to get in hot water over a single globe.

Finally, pictures on websites. I feel for guys like Seth who have spent tons of money on professional photos, it must be frustrating to see something some rampant, but what are you going to do, you can spend all your energy enforcing your rights, or, continue running your business? I see my photos all over the inherent, that fine, but the thing that really bugs me is when they are promoted to be someone else exclusive photos, that plain wrong. I'm a graphic designer not a computer whiz, I take my own pictures, and I do all the work on my own site, I do protect my photos as best I can, but there is a back door on every site, and if they want them that bad they can have them, once again I know the truth, but I'm not going to jump up on a soapbox to prove it, I just accept it.

In short you've got my pledge too. I know where I stand, but sometimes you just have to say it out loud.

------------------
Lance
PogoGas.com


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