Primarily Petroliana Shop Talk Forums Shop Talk Petroliana Forums Petroliana News VENDORS COME FIRST

I know we go over this thread a couple of times a year but it always brings up good points on both vendor & buyer perspectives. Fred Stoke & I put on 2 shows a year at Fred's "ranch" in Santa Rosa, Ca. About the only "rule" that we have is that we "ask" vendors to stay for both Fri. & Sat. We let people set up on Thurs. if they want to because it makes it easier on us than if everyone showed up at the same time on Friday! Most of the $$$$ is traded amongst the vendors so I see their point about leaving when sales slow down. However, it is VERY shortsighted to not think about customers ( who DO drive a business; ask anyone who owns one!!) If no one shows up to buy at Columbus, Iowa, etc., how long would these shows last?? I went to Iowa in '97; we arrived Weds. A.M. & found out that we should have been there on Mon. or Tues. to have a shot at anything good. GREAT!!!! Fly halfway across the country to find out that a show advertised nationally as a Thurs.-Sat. event is already half over on Weds.

That's the point!! The show should start and end as advertised. Fair for everyone.

Stay for the advertised time!Its important to us all,new and old.The younger people that are collecting these gas items can afford your 5000 conoco sign if we wanted it and it was a good investment,remember its the younger people that are going to be keeping your business running someday,dont judge them! P.S. The auctions cost money but just how much profit did the auction make last year in OK???????????? Curious?

Slick - if you think there is a lot of money to be made at auction, no one is preventing you from hosting one in Rolla, MO. Let's not get jealous because someone is willing to risk money and other expenses to provide an another service to the hobby - and hopefully get their investment back and make a buck.

Seth runs one of the best auctions in OK each year, but it's not without great risk of capital and lots and lots of his personal time which costs him money also, when he could be doing something else instead. I'd speculate he has $25,000-30,000 of hard costs without his time, before the auction even starts. Brocheres, magazine advertising, office expense, and in some cases auction merchandise pickup (last year I know he sent a truck to Columbia, MO do meet several sellers with goods).

It would be real easy for auction hosts to say screw it, and not take on the associated aggravation.

Be thankful for the guys that host shows and auctions - think about where the hobby and collectors would be without them. Everytime someone complains to them or about them, or about how they run their show, you make it less lkely they will want to do it again.

When's the last time you returned home from a show or auction, and wrote a note to the host, thanking them for sponsering the event?

True collectors ought to be thankful for ANY opportunity to gather - where it's before the show or on the last day - and send postive messsages to the show or auction hosts.

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Ron Bettin
740-774-OHIO(6446)
bettin@bright.net

Listen...I understand all of your perspectives about shows and the frustrations involved with not being able to take enough time to ensure you had a fair shot at good deals. Hey, I didn't go to Des Moines this year, because Thursday morning was the earliest I could go! I knew that I would be digging through the left-overs and/or buying something that had sold 2-3 times. I will say, that as vendors from our region were heading home, a lot stopped by my shop and one phrase was uttered by all; "the general public was way down, but I still had a great show". That leaves no room for speculation, these guys did most of their trade with other vendors.

Slick...I know that a new guy, a Saturday General Admission would in theory buy a $5k Minuteman Sign, but in practice, I've sold 95% of my high-ticket items at shows to people who were there as vendors (whether they were collectors disguised as vendors or not). As for the production end of my auction, you asked how much $$$ must it make. In 8 years, it has finished in the black a total of 1 time! The only thing making it worthwhile is the fact that I have 50-75 personal items in the sale, and a lot of people buy pump parts while they are in town that weekend. If I didn't have anything in the auction, I would quit immediately. The issue of time vs. money in putting on event has come into question, let me throw out a quick list of some of the things that come into play financially:
Facility Rental
Auctioneer Fees
Advertising ( a big one )
Extra Liability Insurance
Security Guards (cash + lots of stuff!)
8-10 employees for 3 days
3 Extra Phone Lines for Web (1 month min)
Event Permits

These are just the things off the top of my head, at 5 in the morning! Anyway, I'm not looking for a medal, just letting you know that nobody's getting rich putting on swaps or auctions. Also Slick, why would I judge harshly a younger person...I'm 27 myself. If you look at my posts on this thread, I said nothing about "younger collectors", I don't know where you got that. I said someone there to browse on saturday. I have a lot of pump parts customers in the early to mid 20's but we are not talking about general business, we are talking about the cruel world of oil and gas swap meets! Just stating that IN MY OWN EXPERIENCE, I've done the best at shows selling high-ticket items to folks that were 10+ year collectors or vendors, before the show even started. I know there are people who come to do more than browse....BUT, it is naive to think that you have as good a chance to sell your Super Service Neon for your asking price on saturday at noon, as you did on Wednesday at noon. I didn't say it was impossible, just no probable. AGAIN, I'm not say this is right or fair or anything, just stating it's how it is. The best way to change it is to do like the swap meet at Back to the 50's in St. Paul. Do not let 1 person onto the grounds until Saturday at 6 AM and then make everyone leave by 3 PM, and don't have the show at a hotel which makes it easy for people to congregate early. People will still find each other & wheel & deal early, but most stuff will get uncovered at the same time, making for an adrenaline-rushed short show!!

[This message has been edited by Seth Robbins (edited 08-11-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Seth Robbins (edited 08-11-2005).]

"When's the last time you returned home from a show or auction, and wrote a note to the host, thanking them for sponsering the event?"

I have on occaision written to the promoters, but I generally look them up before I leave the show, give 'em a handshake and tell them thanks for all the hard work they put into the show.

Ron, instead of suggesting that everyone who disagrees with you start their own show, why not listen to what's being said here: people want the show to happen as advertised, so they can plan to attend and enjoy the hobby. I really don't see this as that much to ask of the promoters. It might rankle a few people who feel they're 'God's Gift to the Gas Show'- and as such, are entitled to show up two or three days early - that just means it's time for the promoter to put his/her foot down and inform them just WHO'S show it is...

Regarding the promotional costs for shows: I have been told by promoters that once a show is established (held annually at/near the same location for a few years), the site is located, and the mailing list is on the computer, the show becomes less work. People know when to expect the show, and in this day and age of the computer, a cheap web page can accomplish a lot for a little bit of money. Collectors are more computer savvy than ever, and if they aren't they know someone who is - if you don't believe me, look at eBay sometime. Ads for the shows are free in both of the hobby's magazines, and free on this site. Add to that 'word-of-mouth', and you're not talking much of a monetary investment at all...

Now for the slick, four-color auction ads/catalogs: They sure are pretty - but if they are such a hassle, print them in black and white, and run the color shots online. With digital cameras eliminating film/developing costs, they're cheap enough. Besides, these well-moneyed collectors who Seth keeps referring to aren't going to care if the auction ads are in color or not - especially if they're used to 'buying things over the phone'. It's preposterous to suggest that the auctioneers deserve a rousing 'huzzah' from the hobby. If they want that they need to make their money from the guy whose stuff they're selling, and stop sticking the rest of us for that 10-15% buyer's premium...but I guess that's another problem for the hobby entirely...

Lastly, I do thank the promoters, when I'm leaving the show. I usually thank the vendors I know as well. I've helped stack tables and chairs afterwards, because they were friends, and I felt like it.

I just erased a big long post in response to Gulffiend's last one, refuting some of the statements. It just gets deeper and more entangled and solves nothing! Everyone's perception is THEIR OWN REALITY, thus, no one is going to see eye to eye on everything. I will say though, it has hit home with me this week, how this site is being looked upon by new guys. Everytime we get a call here @ Vic's '66' with a question I can't answer or about a part I don't have, I point them to this site. As bad of a business move as that might be, I assume if the person is succesful in their quest because of where I sent them, they will look favorably upon me and buy from me in the future. BUT....TWICE this week, people I've sent here have called me back or e-mailed me and made negative comments about the tone of some of the posts. One guy even made reference to, and I quote "a bunch of old ladies in a sewing circle". I guess I translate that to be a bunch of back-biting & infighting.

I will just say that from here forward I am going to keep my nose out of the argumentative posts, and I apologize if I ever come off like a turkey! I don't mean to be and I don't think any of ya'll mean to sound as bad as the posts sometimes read. This is basically a fun bunch of jokers on here, I've been reading & posting for about 5 years and Lord knows I'm not gonna quit. See ya........

[This message has been edited by Oldgas (edited 08-12-2005).]

I too have my opinion on this subject but, learned a while ago that by voiceing it here, I only made myself look petty. Have decided, in my old age, to keep it to myself......no point adding fuel to the fire! Seth, by the way, I've heard this forum called a bunch of winer's as well. Not the type rep this site deserves...in my opinion....Paul

Seth,
Next time someone complains about Shop Talk please tell them to contact one of the moderators with their concerns.

We don't like personal attacks, but think that differing viewpoints can be constructive.

Bob

I think it's perfectly fine to discuss an issue on this site. Not everybody is going to change their minds, but a lot can be learned from the different points of view that are posted. Some people just aren't as tactful as other in there ability to write their thoughts and at times there are some members (a small minority)that are just plain mean. Also, It is hard to really get what a person is saying without body language or tone of voice. It is easy for all of us to take things the wrong way at times.

So I guess my point is: don't be offended if others have different points of views and voice their opinion. And try to be nice and not attack others if you have a different point of view. OKAY Big group Hug!!! LOL. Have a good one. ~Jason

Well put Jason.

I suggest that anyone who thinks our online community is a bunch of whiners or complainers read through all the posts for the last 2 1/2 weeks over in the non-petro forum.

Seth,

You hit on some good points in your last post. This is a hard hitting thread with a lot of strong opinions. It seems like most everyone will only agree to disagree.

However, one thing is sure about the shows in the hobby. The "public" (meaning non-vendor collectors) is pretty much gone from the shows these days. The show hosts and vendors must understand that how they conduct their business will impact future interest in the hobby. Simple as that. There's a lot of lip service toward attracting "new blood" to the hobby. But it seems like a lot of vendors are only interested in dealing with other vendors.

A friend and I just attended Iowa Gas for the first time. After a day, his comment to me was "this seems to be a really cliquish crowd". I had to agree!!

Paul

"However, one thing is sure about the shows in the hobby. The "public" (meaning non-vendor collectors) is pretty much gone from the shows these days. "

How do you explain the 1100 people that show up at Peotone on Sunday (after the dealers and early buyers have had their chance to buy on Saturday)?
I would agree that much of the public is gone from Iowa Gas and Columbus for reasons outlined previously.
The same is not true about Peotone because there isn't much opertunity for early selling, and the promoters require vendors to stay until the end of the show. Peotone still drew over 700 buyers in the middle of a blizard a couple years ago. Another thing that helps the crowd is its a Sunday show.

Gulfiend - I'm not suggesting people who disagree with me, start their own show.

But I am saying if you or anyone else think the host or promoter isn't doing it right, or the show or auction can be done better - than put up or shut up - do one your self and then maybe you'll see how difficult it really is. Walk in the promoters shoes once - then maybe instead of posting your negatives all the time, you just might say I wish all vendors stayed a litte longer, but I'm thankful for the show and experience and for the time and efforts put forth by the show or auction host.

Incidently - find one post where I've said vendors should leave early. I know why they do leave early, and also know it is America.

I'd estimate the Iowa Gas crowd was 1,500-2,000 different people on Wed and Thur, spread out over the grounds - much larger than the size of a Peotone. Crowds are deceiving when spread out around the Holiday Inn on several acres of ground, versus inside the fairground building at Peotone.

There are only so many times a person is going to walk the vendor lot. The crowd was great Wed afternoon/evening, and really busy from day break to noon on Thursday, and then it started to die off - and continued to do so through Friday. Maybe we should MAKE the buyers all stay for the whole show also.

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Dick Bennett sumed it up best in an earlier post, saying:
Most vendors need time to buy/sell among them selves, so that they can sit in their spaces all day of the advertised show. When the selling of their items slows, that is when most load up to leave.

I use my vacation time to attend the shows that I want to attend. I drive to the shows so that I'm able to transport ANYTHING that I buy.

WE all have our PRIORITIES, some do the complaining & others do the shows.
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Peotone mostly works because the the vendor area inside and outside is secured, and if you don't buy a vending pass, you can't get in early. Also because it's (officially) a one day show. But "mostly" is perception, as alot of stuff is bought and sold at the motel lots before and after the auction, before the Peotone set-up even starts. Also, lets not forget the population base of Chicago and other big cities that are close enough they can drive to Peotone in the morning and be at home at night.

The postings of some on this thread would lead me to believe the shows are the only place they buy.

We spent about $35-40,000 this year at Iowa Gas, and it was less than years past, because the Sat auction brought stronger prices this year. However, in general, I spend less at shows than I do buying at independent auctions, flea markets, antique malls and collectors that I pick up the phone and call, or people who call me to sell their stuff, because they know I'm a serious buyer.

Enjoy the shows and auctions for what they are; go or don't go - your decision. Call other collectors and visit them to buy, or shop antique malls or flea markets to find the real bargains.

Regarding the full color brocheres, anyone in business or marketing, knows the benefit of full color, slick brocheres. Aumann Auctions catalog, even has individual photos of each item being sold, and on large sales, they do a few different color flyers to send out as reminders. They also attend the gas shows to promote their future auctions (just another cost of transportation, personell, motel, etc). To say these aren't needed, is naive - at least if you want to maximize sales for your customers.

[This message has been edited by bettin (edited 08-11-2005).]